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[Poll]
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Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry
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| Yes, we need them to compete and w/o we are screwed in the long run |
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| NO, damnit, let the free market WORK, its what we are built on. |
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| Pie with a side of car. |
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| Pie w/o a side of car. |
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Total Votes : 16
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(last vote on : 12/8/2008 12:48:56 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 11:13:23 AM
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Capt_Caveman
Posts: 5080
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
Another thing....the argument that the economy will falter due to lost tax revenue is irrelevant as the foreign auto makers would have to step up their domestic production to cover the gap thus increasing their percentage of tax revenue for the respective governments. The consumers need for new vehicles is a constant. Having the big 3 go down the tube will only create a vacuum that the foreign automakers will gladly fill domestically.
Incorrect. The large chunk of the tax revenue generated from the US Auto Industry is from it's suppliers and 3rd party companies. That would not be replaced by production overseas to Foreign companies.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 11:24:02 AM
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bad_pork
Posts: 5110
Joined: 5/16/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: unKind-Bud
Falling Gas Prices Jump-Start GM SUV Sales
Automaker Puts Texas Plant On Overtime Amid Other Closures
Monday, November 10, 2008
 
:( That's nuts.
And one of the examples why i have a hard time feeling sorry for people sometimes.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 11:30:47 AM
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LeadMagnet
Posts: 3164
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
Another thing....the argument that the economy will falter due to lost tax revenue is irrelevant as the foreign auto makers would have to step up their domestic production to cover the gap thus increasing their percentage of tax revenue for the respective governments. The consumers need for new vehicles is a constant. Having the big 3 go down the tube will only create a vacuum that the foreign automakers will gladly fill domestically.
Incorrect. The large chunk of the tax revenue generated from the US Auto Industry is from it's suppliers and 3rd party companies. That would not be replaced by production overseas to Foreign companies.
Stay with me here....I highlighted the key part again for you.....
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 11:54:55 AM
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Growler66
Posts: 5044
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bad_pork
quote:
ORIGINAL: unKind-Bud
Falling Gas Prices Jump-Start GM SUV Sales
Automaker Puts Texas Plant On Overtime Amid Other Closures
Monday, November 10, 2008
:( That's nuts.
And one of the examples why i have a hard time feeling sorry for people sometimes.
Agreed.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 1:33:40 PM
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General Anesthetic
Posts: 4224
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: North Cackalacky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
And for any NASCAR fans, say good-bye to it.
I would not be heartbroken if that "sport" disappeared tomorrow. In fact , I would rejoice at the news.
Also, did anyone catch the story this morning that the CEOs of the Big3 all flew on private jets to Washington to beg for money? Those worthless cocksuckers should be forced to drive a fucking Ford Taurus from Michigan to Washington & stay at a Motel 6 when they get there. 
< Message edited by General Anesthetic -- 11/19/2008 1:53:26 PM >
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 1:52:01 PM
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Pharrett
Posts: 7488
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: San Antonio TX USA
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: General Anesthetic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
And for any NASCAR fans, say good-bye to it.
I would not be heartbroken if that "sport" disappeared tomorrow.
In fact , I would rejoice at the news.
commie scum! And you call yourself from the South??
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 1:54:26 PM
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Javadog
Posts: 4860
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: SacOfTomatoes
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pharrett
quote:
ORIGINAL: General Anesthetic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
And for any NASCAR fans, say good-bye to it.
I would not be heartbroken if that "sport" disappeared tomorrow.
In fact , I would rejoice at the news.
commie scum! And you call yourself from the South??
even i like nascar, but only for the wrecks.
and the GODDAMN HAWT SOUTHERN BELLS
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 1:55:11 PM
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General Anesthetic
Posts: 4224
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: North Cackalacky
Status: offline
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Its true. I grew up in "the birthplace" of NASCAR & I fucking hate it. NASCAR makes baseball seem exciting.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 5:52:47 PM
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Capt_Caveman
Posts: 5080
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
Another thing....the argument that the economy will falter due to lost tax revenue is irrelevant as the foreign auto makers would have to step up their domestic production to cover the gap thus increasing their percentage of tax revenue for the respective governments. The consumers need for new vehicles is a constant. Having the big 3 go down the tube will only create a vacuum that the foreign automakers will gladly fill domestically.
Incorrect. The large chunk of the tax revenue generated from the US Auto Industry is from it's suppliers and 3rd party companies. That would not be replaced by production overseas to Foreign companies.
Stay with me here....I highlighted the key part again for you.....
And how many years will it take for Foreign companies to ramp up production in the US to make-up for the losses? If anything, you'll see expansion to continue to occur in China.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 6:20:18 PM
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Javadog
Posts: 4860
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: SacOfTomatoes
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
Another thing....the argument that the economy will falter due to lost tax revenue is irrelevant as the foreign auto makers would have to step up their domestic production to cover the gap thus increasing their percentage of tax revenue for the respective governments. The consumers need for new vehicles is a constant. Having the big 3 go down the tube will only create a vacuum that the foreign automakers will gladly fill domestically.
Incorrect. The large chunk of the tax revenue generated from the US Auto Industry is from it's suppliers and 3rd party companies. That would not be replaced by production overseas to Foreign companies.
Stay with me here....I highlighted the key part again for you.....
And how many years will it take for Foreign companies to ramp up production in the US to make-up for the losses? If anything, you'll see expansion to continue to occur in China.
again, from a previous post from me, correct me if im wrong, but i DO BELIEVE that the toyota plant(s) in the US are already larger in volume and $$ than anywhere else in the world.
can i get a ruling on this?
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 6:34:07 PM
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Capt_Caveman
Posts: 5080
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Javadog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt_Caveman
quote:
ORIGINAL: LeadMagnet
Another thing....the argument that the economy will falter due to lost tax revenue is irrelevant as the foreign auto makers would have to step up their domestic production to cover the gap thus increasing their percentage of tax revenue for the respective governments. The consumers need for new vehicles is a constant. Having the big 3 go down the tube will only create a vacuum that the foreign automakers will gladly fill domestically.
Incorrect. The large chunk of the tax revenue generated from the US Auto Industry is from it's suppliers and 3rd party companies. That would not be replaced by production overseas to Foreign companies.
Stay with me here....I highlighted the key part again for you.....
And how many years will it take for Foreign companies to ramp up production in the US to make-up for the losses? If anything, you'll see expansion to continue to occur in China.
again, from a previous post from me, correct me if im wrong, but i DO BELIEVE that the toyota plant(s) in the US are already larger in volume and $$ than anywhere else in the world.
can i get a ruling on this?
Toyota has five plants (sixth one coming online in 2010) that produce 1.5 million vehicles out of their total 9 million. Toyota has plants in 28 countries and rapidly expanding in China and India.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 7:01:35 PM
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Javadog
Posts: 4860
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: SacOfTomatoes
Status: online
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that still didnt answer the question i dont think.
im not wondering if the US plants outproduce ALL the other plants worldwide, but plant-for-plant from what i understand, the US plant is the biggest grossproducer unit by unit.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/19/2008 11:35:09 PM
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Zissky
Posts: 5875
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: General Anesthetic
Its true. I grew up in "the birthplace" of NASCAR & I fucking hate it. NASCAR makes baseball seem exciting.
I like the massive crashes
for the lulz
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/21/2008 11:38:46 AM
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clyde969
Posts: 88
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: Waterbury, CT.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Javadog
that still didnt answer the question i dont think.
im not wondering if the US plants outproduce ALL the other plants worldwide, but plant-for-plant from what i understand, the US plant is the biggest grossproducer unit by unit.
you said UNIT... heh
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/21/2008 11:40:16 AM
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Javadog
Posts: 4860
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: SacOfTomatoes
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clyde969
quote:
ORIGINAL: Javadog
that still didnt answer the question i dont think.
im not wondering if the US plants outproduce ALL the other plants worldwide, but plant-for-plant from what i understand, the US plant is the biggest grossproducer unit by unit.
you said UNIT... heh
nice contribution there cracker. *wink*
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/21/2008 1:12:17 PM
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bad_pork
Posts: 5110
Joined: 5/16/2006
Status: offline
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This got me thinking. Any of you old enough to remember the collapse of the US steel industry? In the late 70 and early 80s American steel manufacturers went through the same sort of thing the automakers are going through now. (And for mostly the same reasons, too)
On the one hand, most of those jobs are gone forever. On the other hand, the US economy didn't collapse either. Would we have been better off bailing out the steel industry when it needed it?
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/21/2008 7:54:32 PM
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Zissky
Posts: 5875
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bad_pork
This got me thinking. Any of you old enough to remember the collapse of the US steel industry? In the late 70 and early 80s American steel manufacturers went through the same sort of thing the automakers are going through now. (And for mostly the same reasons, too)
On the one hand, most of those jobs are gone forever. On the other hand, the US economy didn't collapse either. Would we have been better off bailing out the steel industry when it needed it?
i bemember
the free-market worked as it is supposed to work.
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/23/2008 12:34:09 AM
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Crampas
Posts: 1605
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
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The wealth of a nation consists of natural resources and the sum of all product, the total amount of currency loosely represents those products and resources.
If you close down production, the nation becomes effectively poorer and money loses value.
OTOH it's hard to make a profit from production of technology, due to the investments and risks required. But it's those things that create value. OTOH it's easy to generate profit from pumping and refining oil (without much competition and easily fixed prices). The strange thing is that people pay vast amounts of money for energy(gas), stuff which we almost get for free from the sun and from natural resources. (Not counting squabbles and skirmishes over oil fields)
A handful of oil companies reap all the profit, while car makers and workers who generate value/wealth have to live on the edge of bankruptcy.
That's basic capitalism for you. The solution is to limit corporate power and the ability of a corporation to exploit society, heavily tax oil-company revenue, regulate markets, (anti-trust which actualyl breaks up companies) and provide state subsidies in development of technology (in universities and various semi-public research institutes). Technology is simply far to complicated - to rely on the initiative of single entrepreneurs (operating from a garage) and to hope for resulting free market competition.
The state must have the power to be able to shake profit makers down, when they get out of line and become too greedy. (Instead you witness the consequences of a puppet government installed by said profit makers for the last 8 years. Only future will tell whether these consequences are good or bad.)
  
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/23/2008 10:32:40 AM
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Javadog
Posts: 4860
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: SacOfTomatoes
Status: online
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id like to add a couple to this sage advice:
as said before, ELIMINATE the unions and the ridiculous overblown pension plans.
2.) STOP NAFTA RIGHT GODDAMN NOW
3.) end affirmative action.
4,) eat more pie.
(#1 seems the most important to me.)
as a side note, as i see gas here in california at 1.92/G
does anyone else find it goddamn criminal and downright RAGE-APPROPRIATE that the airline industry not only is charging for EVERY BAG NOW, but they are still charging and will continue to charge the fuckyou slap in the face of a 'fuel surcharge?'
there are days when i want to just start making phone calls to yell. I think on Monday I am going to start firing off anger to my congress-fag
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RE: Should We Bail Out the Domestic Auto Industry - 11/23/2008 1:45:45 PM
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Growler66
Posts: 5044
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
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Why hasn't anyone even questioned the whole idea behind a fuel surcharge for air transport?
Uhm, yeah. We're paying for a ticket to fly, right? And part of what is necessary to fly is an operational, safe, and usable aircraft, yeah?
So we buy the ticket... then buy the fucking gas, seperate from the ticket?
Explain to me, then, the point of buying the ticket in the first place, cause I don't fucking get it. Or is that for the seat, and the seat belt, and the peanut (if we';re lucky, and yes, I meant that in the singualr "peanut", not the plural "peanuts"), but if we want that seat to actually go anywhere, we have to pay extra for the gas?
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